Have your say & ask the experts

Will Harris:

HD Elvis:

 What if you just bought a un modded region A player with the latest f.w installed, then initiated the hack and left it with that f.w. Is there a constant need to keep updating.  I haven't updated my 983's f.w since purchase?

HD Elvis, personally, I think that there are likely to be firmware improvements every 2 or 3 months for the next year. This player is new, was launched officially in the States in July and as with all BluRay and HDMI products faces occasional compatability issues that certain disks throw up. These are usually fixed in firmware updates. The functionality and overall performance have been increasing incrementally with each new firmware edition so if it were me (and it was me) I'd buy it with the hardware mod (and I did).

Cheers Will, the 83 has been on my most wanted list for some time.  Was planning on getting one on day of release from CRT however a potential house move has delayed said expenditure.  Having said that the 3800 now at £795 is making me think twice.

HD Elvis:

Having said that the 3800 now at £795 is making me think twice.

Or maybe the BDP-83 is making Denon think twice.

HD Elvis:

Will Harris:

HD Elvis:

 What if you just bought a un modded region A player with the latest f.w installed, then initiated the hack and left it with that f.w. Is there a constant need to keep updating.  I haven't updated my 983's f.w since purchase?

HD Elvis, personally, I think that there are likely to be firmware improvements every 2 or 3 months for the next year. This player is new, was launched officially in the States in July and as with all BluRay and HDMI products faces occasional compatability issues that certain disks throw up. These are usually fixed in firmware updates. The functionality and overall performance have been increasing incrementally with each new firmware edition so if it were me (and it was me) I'd buy it with the hardware mod (and I did).

Cheers Will, the 83 has been on my most wanted list for some time.  Was planning on getting one on day of release from CRT however a potential house move has delayed said expenditure.  Having said that the 3800 now at £795 is making me think twice.

Well, I put them up against each other before I chose the Oppo. If you want multi-region, ability to play SACD and DVD-A and don't want to be sitting there just waiting for the darned thing to move because it's so slow, then buy the Oppo. If you want a Denon, then buy the Denon, the picture and sound on BluRay over HDMI were identical. That's why I didn't buy the Denon and still wouldn't. Not even if they cost the same, because the Oppo does more.

Exactly the same over HDMI?? Wow, thats impressive when you consider the price.  Was this on a 1080p panel?  What about SD?

HD Elvis:

Exactly the same over HDMI?? Wow, thats impressive when you consider the price.  Was this on a 1080p panel?  What about SD?

This was on a Pioneer KRP600M and we tested SD and BD.

It is not as big of a surprise as you might think. People are ever so sentimental when they think about brands and really you shouldn't be. If they stack up, then great, but buying on price is just falling for the big brands propaganda.

Oppo were already considered to have produced the best SD upscaler around in the DV-983H. So amoungst enthusiasts their BD offering was keenly awaited and it too is outstanding on SD upscaling, so no surprises there. On BluRay 1080p you're getting the native resolution of the disc and there was NO difference between the Denon and the Oppo. Nor should there be. Why would that surprise anyone? The Oppo is only doing what all BluRay players should be able to do which is send source direct to the screen. No processing required. Just don't muck up the "0"s and "1"s on the way and it doesn't.

Neither playing BluRays or upscaling SD material should be remotely hard and the Oppo does both brilliantly. So does the Denon. But as the Oppo has a bundle of other useful features that the Denon does not, I'd opt for the Oppo without hesitation. I tried popping some music on a flash memory stick a few days ago and stuck it in the Oppo's front USB slot. Amazing. Great interface and it streamed to my Arcam and sounded much better than plugging my iPod directly into my amp. Amp's DACs did all the work. Oppo give you 2 USB slots, one front and one back. So if you have an external hard drive (FAT format only) you can plug it in at the rear and use it to stream photos, music, short movies. Bit of a damn shame it doesn't support NTFS but you can't have everything I guess.

Last thing, wouldn't you like to be one of the few who makes up their own mind and doesn't blindly follow the herd? Try, if you can, to audition for yourself and make up your own mind. I can tell you my own experience, but please don't just be lead like a lamb to the slaughter by simply looking at the price and choosing kit based on that. Denon will love you for ever if you do, but you'll be missing some right royal bargains.

You're not a TV evangelist in your spare time, are you Will?

You really are beginning to stray over the line between enthusiasm and pitching now...

Will Harris:

On BluRay 1080p you're getting the native resolution of the disc and there was NO difference between the Denon and the Oppo. Nor should there be. Why would that surprise anyone? The Oppo is only doing what all BluRay players should be able to do which is send source direct to the screen. No processing required. Just don't muck up the "0"s and "1"s on the way and it doesn't.  

This just isn't true.  Why is it that everybody believes that just because a file is stored digitally that there is no processing required to get the contents of said file onto your telly-box?  All DVDs and BDs contain digital video that has been stored on a disc packed in a compressed format.  If you were to take the VC1, Mpeg4 or Mpeg2 data and spit it at a screen you would get nothing but gobbledigook.  ALL of the video performance of the player is down to the ability and implementation of the hardware within it to decode this packed video information and properly format it for transmission via the uncompressed HDMI link to the Monitor/AVR.  Now it very well may be that both of these players do an equivalently excellent job at the aforementioned process, but spinning the old myth that BDs are all just a bunch of 1s and 0s an that all players are just passing the same info along to the screen is not only incorrect, but also reduces your often well constructed arguments to the kind of digital evangelism that Andrew is referring to.

There definately are diferences in HD playback, I could notice less noise and generally sharper picture on blu-ray playback from my previous Denon DVD-2500BT and my current Oppo BDP-83 when compared to my Sony BDP-S350. However, for HD playback alone, those differences aren't massive compared to the extra cost, e.g. £400+ for the Denon & Oppo. In which case it comes down to what else can the more expensive players offer over a good budget blu-ray player, not that much in the case of the 2500BT in my opinion.

pete321:

There definately are diferences in HD playback, I could notice less noise and generally sharper picture on blu-ray playback from my previous Denon DVD-2500BT and my current Oppo BDP-83 when compared to my Sony BDP-S350. However, for HD playback alone, those differences aren't massive compared to the extra cost, e.g. £400+ for the Denon & Oppo. In which case it comes down to what else can the more expensive players offer over a good budget blu-ray player, not that much in the case of the 2500BT in my opinion.

 I have to say I agree Pete.  There is no way a Pio lx91 provides the same HD pq over hdmi as a ps3 for example. Forget the 1's and 0's argument.  Yes its numbers that go in but what comes out depends on the guts of a player IMHO.

Andrew Everard:

You're not a TV evangelist in your spare time, are you Will?

You really are beginning to stray over the line between enthusiasm and pitching now...

Comes under Equality and Diversty ? 

I wouldn't wish to be seen as a salesman, merely a fan who spent quite a bit of time testing before buying. That's all.

EDITED BY MODS – attacking rival products is just more pitching

Still, I look forward to our player shootout, which I should remind anyone who's interested will be a blind test. Very exciting! I'll bring you the findings. We won't be awarding stars for value for money. We'll instead be looking at outright performance and ranking the players in order of competance for BluRay video, SD video, HDMI audio and Analogue audio. We'll test some CDs and SACDs as well. Players will be:

Denon DVD A1UD
Denon DVD3800BD
Denon DVD2500BT
Pioneer BDP LX-91
Sony BDP S-350
Sony PS3
Oppo BDP-83

The results will be what they'll be. I'll describe the accompanying kit nearer the time but at the moment it looks likely to be either a Pioneer Susano amp or an Arcam 888/777 Pre/Pro. Screen will be a Pioneer KRP600M and speakers PMCs all round and Velodyne sub. I'd call that comprehensive. No sign of any evangelists, just enthusiasts!!

Thanks Andrew.

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This is madness, why would you lock the thread because I said you should be more on the side of the consumer? Why not just censor me and delete the whole post? Why lock the thread? Does talk of the Oppo upset What Hi-Fi SO much, that you decide to trample all over the concept of "free speech"? I wasn't rude to anyone, racist, offensive, so what possible moral right do you have to censor me?

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