Have your say & ask the experts

was the demo in your own room?  if not i think it can be hard to compare, the room has a big an impact as the kit itself, imo.  i think if you want to compare vintage on a like for like basis with new kit, you need to take it's new price and adjust for inflation etc.  i saw this done on another forum, i think, and was pretty suprised how much something that cost say, a 100 pound 30 years ago, would cost today.  one of the other mags also did it recently with regard to some speakers, compared to the new diamond 10.1's.  that's why i don't think comparing what, say, the trs has, with new kit that cost the same as he paid for his is strictly a fair comparison.  the kit he has, if bought new today, would cost loads more.  i'm talking strictly about whether kit has improved over the years, not the vfm of new to old kit.

dim_span:

Craig M.:

if you're going to compare on price, then i don't see how new kit can compare with vintage - or even with ex. demo new kit.  not a fair comparison.

 

suppose you are right, but for many it boils down to 'bang for buck' ... and I would rather have a good sounding vintage system than a brand new rubbish system for the same price

Craig M.:

was the demo in your own room?  if not i think it can be hard to compare, the room has a big an impact as the kit itself, imo.  i think if you want to compare vintage on a like for like basis with new kit, you need to take it's new price and adjust for inflation etc.  i saw this done on another forum, i think, and was pretty suprised how much something that cost say, a 100 pound 30 years ago, would cost today.  one of the other mags also did it recently with regard to some speakers, compared to the new diamond 10.1's.  that's why i don't think comparing what, say, the trs has, with new kit that cost the same as he paid for his is strictly a fair comparison.  the kit he has, if bought new today, would cost loads more.  i'm talking strictly about whether kit has improved over the years, not the vfm of new to old kit.

 

 

Gerrardasnails:

Surely the original question is basically is a budget system now better than a budget system 10 tyears ago. Is the amp costing a months wages as good as an amp costing a months wages 10 years aago, and so on. Otherwise, you could say a £1000 amp three years ago can now be bought on ebay for £400 and will be better than one brand new at £750.

The OP said, "i'm talking strictly about whether kit has improved over the years, not the vfm of new to old kit.".

no but the sound that was in fashion up to the early nineties the big full rich sound has given way to the fast hyperdetailed eargrating stuff we have now

sounds good in shops and demos and thats why people like it just like the new world inventing the taste for fresh fruity young wines rather than the older bigger wines that needed years to mature because its easier to sell

listen to the lovely kef speakers of a few years ago and compare it to the leaner tauter ones on offer now

oh and prat and source first were marketing inventions of the eighties which increased in popularity in the nineties and now hold sway

mind you i like the prat part

the improvement has been in streaming solutions though that has had little impact on the sound except if you go compressed wich makes it notably worse

the record spot:

Craig M.:

was the demo in your own room?  if not i think it can be hard to compare, the room has a big an impact as the kit itself, imo.  i think if you want to compare vintage on a like for like basis with new kit, you need to take it's new price and adjust for inflation etc.  i saw this done on another forum, i think, and was pretty suprised how much something that cost say, a 100 pound 30 years ago, would cost today.  one of the other mags also did it recently with regard to some speakers, compared to the new diamond 10.1's.  that's why i don't think comparing what, say, the trs has, with new kit that cost the same as he paid for his is strictly a fair comparison.  the kit he has, if bought new today, would cost loads more.  i'm talking strictly about whether kit has improved over the years, not the vfm of new to old kit.

 

 

Very true Craig, but I'm aware that comparing the speakers with a pair of mini-monitors costing £80 new isn't a fair fight, not when they were £550 new in 1994 or so! So, compare them with like for like however (which I would do anyway) and put them in with a sonically similar £600 box now and see where the past 15 years have gone. Mezzo 6s for instance. That'd be interesting I think.

ok, good point ... lets take an example (working on usa rates of minum wage) ... just a basic calculation based on minum wage and not including tax rates/inflation etc

lets take a pioneer SA-9800 amp .... in 1980 it cost $800 .... in 1980, the minum wage in the USA was $3.10, so you would have to work 258 hours to buy one

todays min wage in the USA is $7.25 ... so, times that by 258 hours and you will have $1870.50 ... (a rough calculation at todays exchange rate will give you £1128.98 ... which will give you a cryus 8xp, a naim nait xs, a Leema pulse, moon i-1, and a few others

so now how do we compare? .... cannot say, as I have not heard them side by side compared to the pioneer SA-9800

but I can say.... get a pioneer SA-9800 for the fraction of the cost!

(would be a good topic for WHF to cover and compare)

the record spot:

Source first an 80s invention? Linn LP12 anyone?

woops your right the linn started in 1972 

one off:

the record spot:

Source first an 80s invention? Linn LP12 anyone?

no idea really just thought linn and naim were behind the source first thing and the prat thing

woops your right the linn started in 1972

Yes the Ariston RD11 Linn Sondek was first made by Castle Engineering (Ivor's dad's company) in 1972 to a design by Hamish Robertson copied from the Thorens TD150 - itself copied from the original Acoustic Research turntable (designed by Ed Villchur)

Obviously it was a well copied/nicked 1960s unique 80s Linn HAA! invention.

and a follow up to my last post:

todays min wage in the USA is $7.25 ... so, times that by 258 hours and you will have $1870.50 ... (a rough calculation at todays exchange rate will give you £1128.98 ... which will give you a cryus 8xp, a naim nait xs, a Leema pulse, moon i-1, and a few others

some 'excerpts from current WHF reviews:

Naim nait XS: Loses grip on the deepest bass

Leema pulse: Can sound lightweight and querulous

moon i-1:Lacks the detail of the very best; low frequencies could be more taut

and I've never read a bad review on the Pioneer SA-9800

chebby:

.......Although the recent RoHS compliance to lead free solder and the associated risk of 'whiskering' may come back to bite us all in a few years time.........

According to my engineering buddy that is an absolute certainty.

- -

Amps: the entry level stuff is better now than 20 years ago. If you listen to entry-level amps from NAD or CA, they are much more musical than amps from Technics, Sansui, or Pioneer from the 80s.

CDPs: A modern entry-level CDP sounds better than a mid-priced CDP from the 90s. CDPs have improved a lot over the last 15 years or so. This is because digital audio in the 80s and 90s was at its beginnings.

Speakers: I don't think there has been an improvement. When it comes to entry and mid-level speakers from Mission, Tannoy or KEF (to name a few), I prefer models from the late 90s (still made in the UK) than what's being built right now. And vintage models from Altec, JBL or Tannoy can wipe the floor with some of our new slim floorstanders.

IMHO.

Tannoyite:

Amps: the entry level stuff is better now than 20 years ago. If you listen to entry-level amps from NAD or CA, they are much more musical than amps from Technics, Sansui, or Pioneer from the 80s.

CDPs: A modern entry-level CDP sounds better than a mid-priced CDP from the 90s. CDPs have improved a lot over the last 15 years or so. This is because digital audio in the 80s and 90s was at its beginnings.

Speakers: I don't think there has been an improvement. When it comes to entry and mid-level speakers from Mission, Tannoy or KEF (to name a few), I prefer models from the late 90s (still made in the UK) than what's being built right now. And vintage models from Altec, JBL or Tannoy can wipe the floor with some of our new slim floorstanders.

IMHO.

amps: ... I disagree

cdp: I partially agree

speakers: I agree