Have your say & ask the experts

professorhat:

Sorry - I don't want to hijack this thread, but by saying that, you are effectively saying therefore if you use the digital out on a CD player, then they are all the same...

I know this isn't true, I'm just trying to point out the illogical arguments some people use.

Far from it using different cd transports can give you a different sound becouse some are better at reading disks than others simple as, Have you ever had a marked CD that will play in one cd player but not in another?

Just to add this ongoing forum page (...& to repeat what I have just posted somewhere else...)

Anyone else wondering about this particular forum page.... 

Thw w4500 - everywhere rates it as an excellent tv...if you go to the shops and view it seems an excellent tv...BUT it seems that half a dozen new members (I am too!) have hijacked a forum page with repeat messages about something which could be faulty set!!...

A cynical person may think they had motives to increase Panasonic sales against those of Sony!?!?

A paranoid person could question whether there is only one unhappy customer with a few what hi-fi accounts and a few happy contented plasma owners contributing... 

Ted77:

Just to add this ongoing forum page (...& to repeat what I have just posted somewhere else...)

Anyone else wondering about this particular forum page.... 

Thw w4500 - everywhere rates it as an excellent tv...if you go to the shops and view it seems an excellent tv...BUT it seems that half a dozen new members (I am too!) have hijacked a forum page with repeat messages about something which could be faulty set!!...

A cynical person may think they had motives to increase Panasonic sales against those of Sony!?!?

A paranoid person could question whether there is only one unhappy customer with a few what hi-fi accounts and a few happy contented plasma owners contributing... 

If we wanted to increase Panasonic sales we would return out W4500's had get a panny, but we are sticking to it in hope that the retailer will give us a better set.

Seems an excellent tv when you see it in the shops is different to actually having it inside your own home where you have time to inspect it in different lighting conditions and pick out any faults. You cant see clouding on display tv's cos they almost always have a very bright image on their screens.

If it were a faulty set would Sony not have said just go and return it, but instead they say that the problem is to do with LCD panels and to try different settings. If you look at the photos on this thread you can clearly see a few changed settings wont help! The case maybe that alot of W4500 are faulty and just a lucky few get away with a nice cloud free one.

Remember there are alot of people who are new to Flat screen TV's and will just go by what the retailer has told them rather then what is written in forums or reviews. Infact my local Currys was adament that the Samsung Plasmas are miles better than the new Pioneers.

When i asked about the W4500 they told me that the latest Sony was the W4000 and they had not even heard of the W4500. Alot of people buy from these kinda stores and if they buy a tv with clouds on their screen they just stick to it as they really dont know what to expect from their upgrade.

The Sony centre i got my tv from had a couple in who brought their tv a week before i did and were complaining about blockyness on SD channels.. the manager went on to explain that the tv's are designed to use a HD feed for crystal clear images..should this not have been explained on sale? He went on to suggest they upgrade to Sky HD if they want a better pic..the elderly couple didnt seem too happy.

So you see these threads arent here to persuade ppl to go to another brand but infact highlight any issues we have had with that particular series so that any one who wants to purchase something fully knows what they may be gettin themselves into.

garethwd:

professorhat:

Sorry - I don't want to hijack this thread, but by saying that, you are effectively saying therefore if you use the digital out on a CD player, then they are all the same...

I know this isn't true, I'm just trying to point out the illogical arguments some people use.

Far from it using different cd transports can give you a different sound becouse some are better at reading disks than others simple as, Have you ever had a marked CD that will play in one cd player but not in another?

Thanks Gareth - this is precisely the point I was trying to make - the signal isn't on or off - variations in the signal give it a different sound, so a better transport improves the sound as it gives a cleaner signal. Hence cleaner signal through the HDMI cable gives a better sound / picture. It's not simply it works or it doesn't as some people would try to make out (not insinuating anything about you here matey - you're just the only person that replied!).

Surley though you cant get a weaker digital signal? just one with less errors....Correct me please if im wrong but rather than 0&1's it's more like on and off going through a logic gate????? yes no?? And if a cheap cable wasnt shielded wouldnt it just pick uf RF which as far as i know wouldnt effect the digital signal! I mean those mains plug tcp/ip adaptors work through an absolute minefield of noise.

Am i talkin bo11£$%???
and anyway we are on the wrong thread prof ;-)

Ted77:

Just to add this ongoing forum page (...& to repeat what I have just posted somewhere else...)

Anyone else wondering about this particular forum page.... 

Thw w4500 - everywhere rates it as an excellent tv...if you go to the shops and view it seems an excellent tv...BUT it seems that half a dozen new members (I am too!) have hijacked a forum page with repeat messages about something which could be faulty set!!...

A cynical person may think they had motives to increase Panasonic sales against those of Sony!?!?

A paranoid person could question whether there is only one unhappy customer with a few what hi-fi accounts and a few happy contented plasma owners contributing... 

 

I have to admit Im suspicious of some of these posts.    Whilst I feel there are some genuine posts, I also think there are posters on this thread with alterior motives -

EDITED BY MODS

I bet there are just as many faulty sets from other manufacturers.   The reviews Ive heard from other sites on the W4500 are very favourable.

The only reason Im on this thread at the momment is that Im looking to move my Sony 32D3000 into the bedroom and get a 40" for the living room and want to choose the right model.   The picture on this set is fantastic for both SD and HD with no issues whatsoever.   I think I will go Sony again - for me its a question of whether the 100 Mhtz processing is necessary as most reviews of the W4000 report no problem handling motion.

Ted77:

Just to add this ongoing forum page (...& to repeat what I have just posted somewhere else...)

Anyone else wondering about this particular forum page.... 

Thw w4500 - everywhere rates it as an excellent tv...if you go to the shops and view it seems an excellent tv...BUT it seems that half a dozen new members (I am too!) have hijacked a forum page with repeat messages about something which could be faulty set!!...

A cynical person may think they had motives to increase Panasonic sales against those of Sony!?!?

A paranoid person could question whether there is only one unhappy customer with a few what hi-fi accounts and a few happy contented plasma owners contributing... 

 

You can prove these posters are the same person can you? No, I did not think so. Why don’t you have the courage to actually name the people who you think are working for Panasonic? A non paranoid person might think that you are talking out of the top of your hat.

How do I know you don’t work for Sony? I find it rather suspicious that there are certain people, you are one of them, who seem obsessed with promoting Sony.  There is someone on here who works for The Sony Centre, and they are very welcome to post here giving their views, so your juvenile conspiracy theories don’t hold any water at all.

Very Annoyed:

Ted77:

Just to add this ongoing forum page (...& to repeat what I have just posted somewhere else...)

Anyone else wondering about this particular forum page.... 

Thw w4500 - everywhere rates it as an excellent tv...if you go to the shops and view it seems an excellent tv...BUT it seems that half a dozen new members (I am too!) have hijacked a forum page with repeat messages about something which could be faulty set!!...

A cynical person may think they had motives to increase Panasonic sales against those of Sony!?!?

A paranoid person could question whether there is only one unhappy customer with a few what hi-fi accounts and a few happy contented plasma owners contributing... 

 

You can prove these posters are the same person can you? No, I did not think so. Why don’t you have the courage to actually name the people who you think are working for Panasonic? A non paranoid person might think that you are talking out of the top of your hat.

How do I know you don’t work for Sony? I find it rather suspicious that there are certain people, you are one of them, who seem obsessed with promoting Sony.  There is someone on here who works for The Sony Centre, and they are very welcome to post here giving their views, so your juvenile conspiracy theories don’t hold any water at all.

I am that person and I completely agree with Very Annoyed that basically accusing posters of using this forum for the commercial gain of a competing manufacturer or technology is going too far. Internet forums operate on a basis of trust and we have to give this trust as much as we can. On the other side, I do think this thread is getting to the point where it is going round in circles and that those who are unhappy with their sets would find it much more productive pursuing some answers through their retailer. Contrary to suggestions by some, Sony UK take customer satisfaction very seriously but react on information and issues raised by their approved retailers and their customers rather than on forum chit chat.

I do not work for Sony and I don't get this whole 'fanboy' idea of zealous brand loyalty. I bought a sony because it was well reviewed, and my W4500 had major clouding and backlight bleed issues from day one. Sony call centre refused to take any action, and a follow up letter to Sony received no response so the TV has gone back to the retailer (who took it back without question when I mentioned clouding). I spoke to John Lewis Welwyn about this last week when looking for a replacement (was thinking about just getting another w4500), and the guy at the store said they'd seen some customer returns on early W4500s but none recently. Decided to go for a panny plasma anyway, because having seen backlight bleed I knew I'd always be paranoid about it from now on if I bought LCD.

None of this is that big of a deal. Buy the tv from a reputable retailer, just be prepared for the (remote) possibility that you get unlucky and get a lame duck set like mine, in which case you swap with very little hassle or fuss. That goes for any TV by any brand.

First of all thanks to everybody for your valuable opinion about the W4500 and its pros/cons. I post from Spain (but I'm not responsible for the Bravia's assembly ).

The question is that I've ordered one of this Bravias (40W4500), obviously before reading all this issues related to clouding, bleeding, flickering, etc. I'm still in time for refuse the order, but -even with those possible problems- I (still) like this TV very much. I consider that W4000 is not an change option, perhaps the problems are the same...

I supose that I could receive different kinds of advice and tips, but I'd be happy to receive them. In fact, I'm eagerly waiting Clare to open her Dad's TV set , her opinion his quite important for me!

Can someone help me? 

Thanks again!

Kuto:

First of all thanks to everybody for your valuable opinion about the W4500 and its pros/cons. I post from Spain (but I'm not responsible for the Bravia's assembly ).

The question is that I've ordered one of this Bravias (40W4500), obviously before reading all this issues related to clouding, bleeding, flickering, etc. I'm still in time for refuse the order, but -even with those possible problems- I (still) like this TV very much. I consider that W4000 is not an change option, perhaps the problems are the same...

I supose that I could receive different kinds of advice and tips, but I'd be happy to receive them. In fact, I'm eagerly waiting Clare to open her Dad's TV set , her opinion his quite important for me!

Can someone help me? 

Thanks again!

Hi there, not sure exactly what your asking, however, as an owner of a 46w4500 with some of these issues I’d make sure you get one from a good retailer who will exchange the set if your unsatisfied. Do you watch in the dark or a lit room, if you normally view in a well lit room non of these issues will be detectable, in the day or with the lights on my set does look stunning with bluray and xbox 360 its only at night with the lights off the issues become apparent. As of now I’m waiting for the shop to get new stock in to exchange mine. 

Thankyou Villain210! My retailer is a spanish Internet shop, they offer the possibility of exchange if broken or malfunction. I suppose that clouding, etc. isn't included in "malfunction", after Sony's answer related to settings... that scares me a lot!

What about free TDT channels (SD) in W4500?  I'm going to spend many hours watching then, I fear.

 Thanks a lot! (and sorry for my english).

Scientific Test (well sort of) on 40w4000, 46w4000, 40w4500 and 46w4500

I have been reading the thread and it made me uneasy about the purchase decision that I was about to make. I wanted the 46W4000 and then found out 4500 is even better so waited and as I am just about to buy it this whole thread started.

So the other day I went to comet North Shields and played with 40w4000, 46w4000, 40w4500 and 46w4500 for over an hour. They were really good and gave me the remote(s) left me to my own devices. I checked as much as possible this backlight problem and didn't see any .

All sets were in their most garish settings (dynamic or whatver) to show as much brightness and colours. Mr Bond was doing his Blu-Ray stuff, madagascar or kunfu panda was doing their stuff as well and not a sausage. I put the sets to movie mode, again nothing didn't see any bleeding/clouding whatsoever. I put the sets to an AV input which had no av source hence the screen was .... well black and again no clouding. Some sets were running SKY Sports News and they were OK as well.

My Conclusion:

I owned pioneer 427x and now 46 Sharp.

Pioneer suffered from incredible image quality but also terrible banding on uniform colours (like footy pitch). Also image retention. It had to go back.

Sharp my current TV. What a come down from Pioneer. Seeing the Freeview first time I thought poooooo. But calibrated properly and all is good. But it locks up during HDMI input changes. Can't be doing with that. It has to go.

Sony (my potential new purchase). It's sony. Name says it all. 5-year warranty from JL. It's Sony (did I say that before?) Seal of approval from WHF mag, but bad review from another site.

If I am going to buy it but not gonna go and look for clouding. In other words not going to go out of my way to look for it. I'll see during my normal viewing conditions will I notice it. If I don't all is good. If I do please refund me my money JL. Move onto Samsung.

Whatever we buy we are going to see pro's adn con's with our choices.

Plasma: Great picture, heavier, more power consumption, not as bright, better blacks, no image blurring, image retention, excellent SD pictures.

LCD: Brighter, lighter, less energy consumption, image blurring, no image retention, SD pictures not as good, not as good blacks.

So there is choices to be made and I would take the above into account before I make a choice as I am sure we all do. To mitigate the problems which may arise I buy from a reputable company (pay a little extra) like JL. With a purchase like this if I can help it I will not order over the internet even though most of them are excellent companies.

By the way Clare you are gorgeous.

Kuto:

Thankyou Villain210! My retailer is a spanish Internet shop, they offer the possibility of exchange if broken or malfunction. I suppose that clouding, etc. isn't included in "malfunction", after Sony's answer related to settings... that scares me a lot!

What about free TDT channels (SD) in W4500?  I'm going to spend many hours watching then, I fear.

 Thanks a lot! (and sorry for my english).

Hi, can't say the issues bother me when watching SD TV that much, the issues mainly affect dark scenes in movies, maybe some TV shows, if your main concern is SD TV then you probably would be best looking elsewhere, if you want a top quality bluray picture (like me) then this is the way to go if you can get a good set.

Sony’s response in my opinion is a load of rubbish, they are saying basically turn the backlight down, wow I’d have never have thought of that, I thought you were suppose to leave it on MAX (sarcasm). You can turn it down to MIN and turn power saving onto reduced power with light sensor on and all it does is give you a very dull picture, you need the backlight on about 2-3 to give a decently lit picture, and the less said about the reduced power option the better.

trained_killa:

So the other day I went to comet North Shields and played with 40w4000, 46w4000, 40w4500 and 46w4500 for over an hour. They were really good and gave me the remote(s) left me to my own devices. I checked as much as possible this backlight problem and didn't see any .

I'm guessing it wasn't that dark in comet huh? because to look at mine during the day or a decently lit room you wouldn't notice any of those things either, it looks fantastic, these issues only become apparent when you've got it in your home environment and its dark at night.