Have your say & ask the experts

raypalmer:

It's a Sony. True to form.






Ahem, plasma, ahem...

Does Sony advertise a lot in WHF??? That makes a lot more sense to me than WHF getting two W4500's in that somehow defy their nature as an LCD...

With all due respect, I think thats out of order. WHFS&V have responded to such allegations in full and given completely convincing answers. Sony don't advertise much in the mag anyway!

Every TV engineer I speak to still says that, overall, Sony make the most reliable sets and that they see far more issues with Panasonic in both LCD and plasma.

LCD is not perfect technology, but neither is plasma. If either was, the current developments in backlight technology (Dynamic RGB LED) and OLED screens would not be taking place. LCD is no more inherently flawed than plasma and the vast majority of sets do not suffer from backlight issues, whether Sony or any other quality brand.

At the end of the day, all this LCD versus plasma stuff is rubbish. BOTH technologies are capable of quite stunning results (look at Pioneer's plasmas or Sony's 46X4500 LCD for evidence)and, as such, there is far too much obsession with the technology. Forget the technology and look at the picture. Whichever set you prefer the picture of, whether its LCD or plasma, Sony or another brand - well, thats the one for you.

raypalmer:

I just wonder where are the threads highlighting litanies of problems with Pannys and Pio's are. Where are the throngs of dissatisfied P-Machine owners????


Why is public opinion seemingly so at odds with the party line?

Sigh. There is no party line. There is no link between advertising and editorial (and we slate plenty of other Sony products). We've encouraged friends and family to buy Sony sets - because we believe you can buy no better at 40/46in - and they've been fine, too.

Want some threads of people with problems with other brands of set. Here you go - all found in seconds via the Search Forums button. 

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/50155.aspx

 http://whathifi.com/forums/t/141563.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/85168.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/50828.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/57317.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/117101.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/152901.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/39853.aspx

 And there are more - about Blu-ray players, faulty receivers, CD player problems. The sad fact is that Consumer Electronics - like any consumer product - aren't build to 100 percent perfection. And the more popular the product, statisitcally the more duff units you're gonna get. That's the same from cars to kettles.

Should Sony perhaps have better quality control? IMO, yes. Should they have reacted better to this situation? Definitely.

The fact remains that when you see one of these sets in full flow, properly set up, it's glorious.

raypalmer:

Does Sony advertise a lot in WHF???

No, not that much...

It seems more inclined to spend its money on TV ads, sponsorship of the F1 coverage last year, and, to quote a recent press release from the company,

"a one-off unique light installation which incorporated all four [new Bravia] models at The Tramshed in East London.

"The installation, a concept created by artist Paul Cocksedge, titled ‘R.G.B’ shined a red, a green and a blue light separately from one side of the venue. All three lights meet at a white dot upon which the four new BRAVIA LCD televisions will hang above. The light concept is based on R.G.B lights within televisions.

"Celebrities, influencers, the public and media were invited to witness the unique creation on show for one day only."

I've just checked with our commercial team, and the company who took by far the most TV advertising with WHF last year were.. LG. Who in that time only received one five star TV rating from us (which subsequently got taken down to four with newer competition against it) and an awful lot of lower-starred reviews.

shnex:

Well, I tend to believe that forums are not such a good indication of how reliable a particular piece of equipment is, for a very simple reason:

Mostly people who post threads on forums are people who are having problem. For every piece of equipment on any forum anywhere, you'll only have a very very small percentage of post from people who are very happy with their purchase want to share it with the world.

I believe a reason why there are so many post about  the W4500 series is that it has proved extremely popular, both because of it's quality, and the excellent marks it got in reviews throughout.

Maybe it's a little harsh to have a go at WHF for their review of this range. A quick look in google will show at least 5 other Hifi/Electronics review websites which give an equally positive rating to this set.

 Furthermore, I purchased and received a 40W4500 yesterday after much hesitation, many visits in shops, and a lot of time spent on forums such as this one. When it arrived and I switched it on, I was terrified at the idea of seeing the dreaded Clouds and Backlight. I spent 2 hours in the dark trying to fault it. And you know what? No problem. No clouds, no Backlight bleed, nothing!

One cannot dismiss the impact of mass paranoia. And while I do believe some sets have problems (and as a normal person with a limited budget for that kind of luxury, I very much sympathize with unhappy customers such as the gentleman from holland who started this thread), I do believe that this problem affects a minority of W4500. If you spend ages on forums like this, then spend hours trying to find problems with a TV, Blue RAy, or any other product for that matter, you will find faults, issues, little niggles, some of which might just be in your head.

I spent some time on the phone which a bunch of retailers (all of which are awaiting stocks) and only found one shop who acknowledged they had to replace a set. While I know that retailers may not be the most truthfull source of information, I also believe they wouldn't re-order a range that keeps coming back with problems.

Finally, I don't believe there is such a thing as an unbiased  review. So before you splash out £1000 plus on something based on what some guy wrote somewhere, it's worth going to check out the beast in person.

T 

 Shnex, I couldn't agree with you more. Most of the people posting about this tv are those with problems. And they will search for comments from other people who have problems, and pay attention only to them. Despite this, there are still many posts on this thread from people who are completely happy with their tv, like you and me. These posts seem to get ignored however. I wonder why?

This thread also seems to be going round in circles, with the same points being raised again and again, such as should WHF lower the rating they awarded to this tv, how much do Sony pay for advertising, etc? IMO, WHF have done all that could reasonably be expected of them, and more. If Sony paid so much for advertising, would they not put pressure on WHF to stop this thread and any others like it? I think so. But how long is this thread? How much input has there been from Andrew, Clare, etc. They have even brought this problem to Sony's attention. I don't understand where accusations of bias towards Sony come from.

And to everyone wanting WHF to lower their rating - why? How can they lower a rating based on problems they have not seen? I've had my tv for nearly 4 months now, and I still think it's amazing. I can see no backlight bleed or clouding at all. And another thing, a lot of people have said that they can see backlight bleed when there is no input device switched on. Why? Who is going to sit and watch a blank tv? Is it really that bad when actually watching something?

This thread, and others like it, are making me look for problems with my tv, even when I know there are none. And I'm sure other people find themselves doing the same. When I'm watching a particularly dark scene, or where there are black bars along the top and bottom, I am finding myself looking at the corners trying to see if I can spot any bleeding (which I can't), instead of just enjoying what is a cracking tv.

I know some people have problems with theirs, but how bad are the problems really? I think the problems are being magnified by some of the people on here. For each of the unhappy people on here, there will surely be countless very happy people not posting on this thread. But because of their poor experiences, and those of others on here, some people are assuming that all these tvs must therefore be affected. But they aren't. WHF's review set is fine, so is Clare's dad's, so is mine, and so is Shnex's. So there's 4 for starters.

I don't deny that some people seem to be affected quite badly, but I don't think that the problems are anywhere near as widespread as is being made out. This is a great tv, and I would happily recommend it to anyone.

Hear hear!

now, can we lock the thread and move on?

The new models will be out soon, that'll give something else to complain about.

visionary:

Hear hear!

now, can we lock the thread and move on?

Have a sneaking feeling that if we locked it - out of sheer boredom more than anything else - another thread would pop up saying the fact we're stifling debate shows how beholden we are to Sony, etc., etc..

I'm just going to let it ramble on, I think...

Yep, the deluded conspiracy theorists would be bound to misconstrue it.

More importanly, of course, there may still be people out there who are about to buy/have just bought one of these sets, and it's only fair they have access to the full debate (however crazy it's got at times on this thread).

It's getting a bit like eczema though. You know you should leave it alone but it's hard to resist just one more scratch.

there could be 50000 people out there with perfect sets , but if there was 1000 with dodgy ones , should they just shut up and bear it ?? no i dont think so , you say you have a perfect set , why not enjoy it and ignore these threads ?? if you had a dodgy set would you like someone telling you not to complain cause you were annoying them ?? this debate isnt about taking sides , people want to hear good and bad experiences , then they can make an informed descision ,, i dont have your tv , but am close to buying one , what you have said makes me want one even more , but i dont want hassle , and because sony havnt commented properly on this subject , i am in limbo ,, and a little cautious ..... would you blame me ????

maxflinn:

there could be 50000 people out there with perfect sets , but if there was 1000 with dodgy ones , should they just shut up and bear it ?? no i dont think so , you say you have a perfect set , why not enjoy it and ignore these threads ?? if you had a dodgy set would you like someone telling you not to complain cause you were annoying them ?? this debate isnt about taking sides , people want to hear good and bad experiences , then they can make an informed descision ,, i dont have your tv , but am close to buying one , what you have said makes me want one even more , but i dont want hassle , and because sony havnt commented properly on this subject , i am in limbo ,, and a little cautious ..... would you blame me ????

I totally agree with you. Of course I don't blame you. And of course they shouldn't grin and bear it. But I think it's going a bit over the top now, with accusations of bias, etc etc. There seem to be a minority of sets affected. But there are some people who are assuming that just because their set is affected, then every set must be affected, and are telling people to stay away from this tv. That is why I have kept reading this thread. Because I have one which works well, I know how good it is, and I don't like to see people warning other potential buyers to stay away, based only on their experiences. As you say, you want to hear good and bad experiences. I'm providing good ones.  If this thread was full of only negative comments, noone would ever buy this tv.

If you do go for this tv (and obviously I think you should), take the advice of others and try to view it first and check for bleeding. And buy from a reputable dealer who will take it back if you're not happy with it. You won't regret it.

The fact is that the points of doubt were raised, reconfirmed and warnings made,  500 posts ago. 

Those people who have the probs should spend their time e mailing or besieging their dealer/Sony. They can use this thread as evidence as well - I would.

There is more than enough info now for those in the market for a TV to decide if they want to take the risk or not.  I'm sure that negotiations with dealers will be undertaken to ensure a return will be guaranteed (in writing if it were me) if the prob arises for these wary punters.

We are into spleen venting territory rather than a thread of debate and this is maybe too far. The staffers have done all they can so let's turn our sights elsewhere, eh ?

Ok, I found this on another site. I'm not sure if it's ok to post it here, but as it might help, and is just a post by a user of the site, I thought it might be ok. I take no responsibility for suggesting it, but if anyone wants to try it, perhaps you could report back to say whether or not it works -

"I suffered with the prominent ‘backlight bleed’ problem in both top corners of my KDL40W4500 and after diong a little research realised it’s related to the way the screen is mounted. i layed my tv on it’s front (with stand removed), slackened all the screws on the rear panel then re-tightened them and viola! no bleed whatsoever, even with backlight at max. seems to me the screens may become a little ’strained’ in transit and just need relaxing. worked for me but of course i don’t accept any responsibility if you decide to try it!"

rob_981:

Ok, I found this on another site. I'm not sure if it's ok to post it here, but as it might help, and is just a post by a user of the site, I thought it might be ok. I take no responsibility for suggesting it, but if anyone wants to try it, perhaps you could report back to say whether or not it works -

"I suffered with the prominent ‘backlight bleed’ problem in both top corners of my KDL40W4500 and after diong a little research realised it’s related to the way the screen is mounted. i layed my tv on it’s front (with stand removed), slackened all the screws on the rear panel then re-tightened them and viola! no bleed whatsoever, even with backlight at max. seems to me the screens may become a little ’strained’ in transit and just need relaxing. worked for me but of course i don’t accept any responsibility if you decide to try it!"

I'm sure I suggested something like this about a million posts back in this thread or one of the very similar ones. Not that you should try this adjustment yourself, but that the problems could be caused by over-enthusiastic use or incorrect torque setting of a power screwdriver in assembly, causing the panel to distort slightly.

It'd only have to happen at one station on the production line to afflict a considerable number of sets, given the speed at which these things are banged out, not of course that this excuses QC inspection not picking it up...