Have your say & ask the experts

To add to that Chris, there are those that also use a dealers time and cost them money in other ways. They don't even walk into your store. There are those that will ring you up for advice on various components, matching them to others, setting up etc, with no intention of buying from you. These calls can be anything up to 30 minutes on each ocassion. Ok, some dealers have this time spare, but some don't, and have plenty to be getting on with. You don't mind the ocassionalt call when someone needs to know what socket to plug their cable into, even if they bought nothing fom you, but it's when you get those that want in depth answers to various  questions before they purchase - from someone else.

I'm not saying that spending half an hour on the phone entitles the dealer to a sale, in the same way that offering a demo doesn't entitle the dealer to the same thing, but it's when a dealer's time is used purposely with no purchasing intent that there should be something knocking on these people's consciences. But don't worry, we've installed ultra high technology voice recognition equipment to weed out the perpetrators 

It's hard for dealers or any retailer for that matter as we seem to be spiralling into a mind set that decrees if I can get it cheaper on the net the shop should match it irrelevant if I've just walked in off the street or been in for the last couple weeks trying to make up my mind.

Everyone likes a good deal but I sometimes wonder that the  I'net has enhanced peoples greed . Look at complaints regularly about legality when  Play/Amazon renege on £60-80 box sets for £19.99 thats withdrawn because it's a web error ..(No offence intended to complainers). 

As a regular traveller due to work (BA / cheapest )  I could never understand the pay £20 to fly to Spain , flight delayed 24hrs  well why weren't put up in luxury hotel brigade

I'm maybe in a slightly unusual position. I work in IT Sales and my company sells to large corporate and public sector customers. We sell services, suppport and hardware. When we win a large deal, it's not necessarily because we have the lowest price. Whilst price is a factor, the service capabilities, the quality control procedures, the support infrastructure in place, and the skills of the people involved in the account are every bit as important. I am also acutely aware that there will always, always, be someone cheaper, but they won't necessarily be the best company for that customer to deal with. We know of clients who have refused to go with quotes that were too cheap beacause it gave them doubts about the company's understanding of the requirement, the resources they plan to use to deliver it and the ongoing viability of the company if they work at such low margins. What use is a warranty when a company goes bust...ask any Rover owner??

I suppose that's why I have an appreciation of what goes in to providing a quality service and why I don't mind paying for it. It also means I have a healthy dislike for paying for something which is of no value to me.

Fortunately I've generally came across excellent service from the specialist dealers I have visited. But I'm sure there are one or two exceptions out there.

sonycentre:

I buy what hi-fi every month.and i use
this site.But i would be gutted if the magazine stopped being
produced.cos people found"no value left in the magazine"And i can get
it on-line for nothing.It seems to be the way of the world now.

I'm a subscriber to the mag, and even though I frequent the forum regularly, I don't think it will ever replace the mag for me. Call me old school. I don't download music, I prefer to buy CDs, I like "owning" the product. Same goes for the mag. Also...I can't surf the net from the bathroom...and if I ever did, then frankly it's time to cancel the broadband service!

Thanks brisk.

Some dealers will bend over backwards to do what they can for the customer, but when the customer wants that little bit extra, it's sometimes the way in which the customer 'demands' it - they could've had a lengthy demo, a home demo even, a couple of freebies thrown in, and still wants you to 'beat' the cheapest internet price they've seen, which is probably some dodgy online retailer who's not even an authorised dealer. It's true that if you don't ask you don't get, but it's all down to how you ask that can mean the difference between getting it and not getting it!! As you say, it's a two way thing.

Acciesboy:

I suppose that's why I have an appreciation of what goes in to providing a quality service and why I don't mind paying for it. It also means I have a healthy dislike for paying for something which is of no value to me.

Acciesboy:

I'm maybe in a slightly unusual position. I work in IT Sales and my company sells to large corporate and public sector customers. We sell services, suppport and hardware. When we win a large deal, it's not necessarily because we have the lowest price. Whilst price is a factor, the service capabilities, the quality control procedures, the support infrastructure in place, and the skills of the people involved in the account are every bit as important. I am also acutely aware that there will always, always, be someone cheaper, but they won't necessarily be the best company for that customer to deal with. We know of clients who have refused to go with quotes that were too cheap beacause it gave them doubts about the company's understanding of the requirement, the resources they plan to use to deliver it and the ongoing viability of the company if they work at such low margins. What use is a warranty when a company goes bust...ask any Rover owner??

I work in exactly the same industry (though technical rather than sales) and all I can say is, yes there are some clients who will decide on a bid for reasons other than price. But just like the consumer, they are few and far between, and like the consumer, that price differential has to be fairly small. The reason I know that? Because the ultimate quest in any bid we put together is not to put the best solution in place for the customer according to their requirements (which is what I do first draft), it's to put the best solution in place for the customer according to their requirements at a certain "known" cost (which is what I eventually compromise at third or fourth draft).

The world is driven by budget - always will be until the human race finds an alternative to money.

professorhat:

the ultimate quest in any bid we put together is not to put the best solution in place for the customer according to their requirements (which is what I do first draft), it's to put the best solution in place for the customer according to their requirements at a certain "known" cost

 

You're right...and that's exactly the reason I have a £1,500 receiver and not a £15,000 receiver. I don't have budget for the latter (sadly)...or more accurately, I cannot perceive the value in a £15,000 receiver, after all I could have borrowed £12K if I really felt it was worth it! Quite frankly I don't think my eyes and ears would notice the difference. I recently visited a dealer with a view to buying a CD player...the shop was empty and while we were talking they kindly let me listen to a Chord Red Reference Mk II CD player, their suggestion - I had already told them my budget was only around around £600. Whilst it was exceptionally good, and should be for £13,000, I genuinely couldn't tell the difference between that and a £600 one. Maybe someone else could, but I couldn't so it would be a wasted investment for me.

There will always be someone, somewhere cheaper. Given enough time and effort, you will find whatever you want to purchase even just a couple of quid cheaper...but then we're back to the value argument again aren't we? As an individual, I value my own time (even if others don't value it!) so there comes a point when a decision has to be made and sometimes I know what I want and other times I need help and guidance, which only a dealer who has invested in their own expertise and facilities can provide.

professorhat:

(which is what I eventually compromise at third or fourth draft).

I hear you! This is the story of my professional life as well, the eternal struggle between technical excellence and the lack of blank cheques in customers' hands! And yet a compromise can be reached...by negotiation. And it is those dealers who are willing to negotiate with their customers, demonstrating their value but at the same time listening to solution requirements and the commercial or budgetary pressures of those customers, who will have a sustainable business. How long would your or my company survive if we instisted on every deal that we would not budge an inch on price or change a single task in a statement of work...not very long I would imagine. It's the dealers who insist it is their way or the highway and who don't listen to their customers needs who maybe put people off using specialist channels and look at the internet as the best way to buy.

professorhat:

The world is driven by budget - always will be until the human race finds an alternative to money.

Absolutely right. This applies to both consumers and dealers. The consumer can't or won't spend more than their budget, and equally the dealer has a cost base and a margin requirement that they must at least cover. The key to it all is getting these human beings communicating to find out if the right product or service can be supplied at a mutually agreeable rate. If there will never be any overlap in those budgetary numbers of "what I can afford" and "what I can afford to sell it at", then the quicker each party ends the dialogue the better for everyone - for example, my question when I went into a dealer's store and asked "what's your best price for a Yamaha RX-V3900?", the reply was "£1500"...I know what I want, I know that's the RRP, I can pay just now, what is the best price you give it to me for and I'll take it off your hands..."still £1500". "OK, thank you for your time, goodbye." I know my budget, he has stated his and refused to negotiate...as they say in Dragon's Den, "I'm Out!"

Okay, fair enough in response to my post. I guess the difference between what you and I do and how selling hi-fi / AV works is, a normal hi-fi / AV consumer does not outline his or her requirements to a number of different retailers, wait for their responses, potentially hold face to face meetings with each one as they draw them up, then decide on which retailer to go with, depending on their solution and their price. What they'll probably do is read up the reviews, maybe audition a few items (and these days, that seems to be a big maybe in the AV world!), then buy as cheap as they can find. Not all of them will do this of course, but probably the majority.

That was the point I was making - it might not be right, but as I was trying to point out, it's just the way the world works.

EDIT - I'll also point out, I'm not one of those people - I buy from a dealer when I need to because I recognise the service I get from a dealer. However, many people don't and this has been demonstrated by comments on this forum time after time.

professorhat:

That was the point I was making - it might not be right, but as I was trying to point out, it's just the way the world works.

EDIT - I'll also point out, I'm not one of those people - I buy from a dealer when I need to because I recognise the service I get from a dealer. However, many people don't and this has been demonstrated by comments on this forum time after time.

 

And I agree with everything you've said. While there may be a number of narrow minded dealers, I am happy to concede there are no doubt an army of even narrower minded consumers!

With this in mind, here's a question for the more enlightened members of the dealer network (in other words, the ones who post here!):

How does the specialist channel compete against the onslaught of online warehouses stacking them high and selling them cheap while all the time the immoral public are using and abusing the dealer networks' facilities only for the specialist to lose out on the sale to the company with the cheaper cost base?

Yes, I suppose that must be annoying David. It makes me feel really bad when I waste the time of dealers, unintentionally of course. I was at a demo for maybe 90 minutes, genuinely looking to buy from the shop, but I just didn't like what they had, and the guy sat in for most of the demo. Whatever 90 minutes costs in terms of working hours at a hifi shop I don't know. Fair enough I suppose, £15?? worth of advice on man hours only was free, I shouldn't be obliged to buy just because I had a good demo session (despite not liking what they had to offer, it gave me some ideas) but I think you get my point. The next time I'm after some cables or something I shall certainly go back there and pay probably more than I could get them for elsewhere.

Then again I suppose using their time and not buying is balanced by some people who just drop in and make large impulse purchases.

That's totally fine - if the customer tries a few things out and none are to their liking in that store then that's totally understandable. As for what it costs the dealer, that can vary depending what you take into account - as you say, someone else may be wanting to make an impulse purchase!

When I bought my AV equipment, my dealer gave me good demonstration. He even matched internet prices for me. I almost felt guilty for demoing the equipments & paying him internet prices, but he charged me £40 each for non-branded HDMI cables which made up for his losses. I don't really mind that. He's done a great install for me, & I'm more than happy with his prompt customer service. I'll go back to him for my future AV needs.