Have your say & ask the experts

Ravey Gravey Davy:

f/ All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand.

this really made me laugh

dim_span:

Lol. That's a good one

the_lhc:

dim_span:

they are playing with fire ... no-one knows what this thing will do and everyone is just guessing ... bad idea IMHO

They know more about it than you do obviously.

They know exactly what it's going to do, what every other particle accelerator has done before it, just at higher energies. They don't know if they're going to see what they're expecting, which is a different matter entirely, but will still provide some interesting physics either way.

Unless you're talking about the "it'll create a black hole and destroy the world!" nonsense? I suppose it's vaguely possible but if it does the black hole will be microscopic and will evaporate (due to Hawking radiation) almost instantly. Indeed it's thought that such a thing could happen spontaneously throughout the universe as it is, and nothing's swallowed the Earth so far...

and .... from one of the 'clever scientists' who appeared on a recent documentary:

CERN physicist Alvaro De Rújula in the BBC LHC documentary, 'The Six Billion Dollar Experiment', incredibly admits, "Will we find the Higgs particle at the LHC? That, of course, is the question. And the answer is, science is what we do when we don't know what we're doing."

Dooh! ...

dim_span:

idc:

I really hope that the LHC (the big underground cicular thingy, not the forum member) is trying to sabotage itself from the future to stop us from blowing ourselves up. That is my favourite internet fact ever.

first, I hear it's the aliens who are sabotaging the thing ... now I hear it was a bad solder joint that caused the very very expensive hi-tech item to malfunction for several months??? ... solder joint??? ... yea right!!!

In loose terms, yes that's what it was, it was the connections to the bus bar between two of the magnets that failed. It's not exactly solder but that's how it's being described in "layman's terms" (as you seem so fond of them...).

TKratz:

Interesting thread! Although not what I usually consider Hifi...

"Off topic and miscellaneous"

And for the_lhc, I got to know, was your name chosen on this basis, or is it by incidence/other reasons?

Err no, I don't think my name predates the plans for the LHC but I was already using the initials online ten years ago, long before it came to the public's attention.

It's a happy coincidence, I'm not displeased with the association, let's say that.

dim_span:

the_lhc:

dim_span:

they are playing with fire ... no-one knows what this thing will do and everyone is just guessing ... bad idea IMHO

They know more about it than you do obviously.

They know exactly what it's going to do, what every other particle accelerator has done before it, just at higher energies. They don't know if they're going to see what they're expecting, which is a different matter entirely, but will still provide some interesting physics either way.

Unless you're talking about the "it'll create a black hole and destroy the world!" nonsense? I suppose it's vaguely possible but if it does the black hole will be microscopic and will evaporate (due to Hawking radiation) almost instantly. Indeed it's thought that such a thing could happen spontaneously throughout the universe as it is, and nothing's swallowed the Earth so far...

and .... from one of the 'clever scientists' who appeared on a recent documentary:

CERN physicist Alvaro De Rújula in the BBC LHC documentary, 'The Six Billion Dollar Experiment', incredibly admits, "Will we find the Higgs particle at the LHC? That, of course, is the question. And the answer is, science is what we do when we don't know what we're doing."

Dooh! ...

Do you have to put everything in bold? What's your point here? This is what science does, finds out how things work, seeks to understand things we don't yet understand. If you already know what's going to happen, you don't need to do any science. I mean you don't even understand the definition of science and yet you still claim more knowledge?

Oh and you know the proof you were requesting for Hawking's theories? That's what this will go someway to providing if the Higgs boson is found (remember it's not possible to prove a theory. Also I don't think this is actually one of Hawking's ideas but never mind). If they don't find it, it simply means they need to think again, which is almost as valuable, as it saves years of heading down a blind alley. There's plenty of other things they'll be using the collider for as well, so it won't be wasted money.

Now, what's the next idiotic thing you want to say?

the_lhc:

Oh and you know the proof you were requesting for Hawking's theories? That's what this will go someway to providing if the Higgs boson is found (remember it's not possible to prove a theory. Also I don't think this is actually one of Hawking's ideas but never mind).

You are right, the theory of the Higgs boson wasn't one of Hawking's ideas. It was developed by the particle physicist Peter Higgs (and thereby the name). Hawking is more known as a cosmologist working with broader scopes so to say. He is probably best known for his theories of extreme objects and conditions, eg. black holes and how they can evaporate (as consequence of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle). But there are of course overlaps, and running tests in the LHC you create a such extreme condition. What I didn't know (but found out be a quick search) is, that Hawking is trying to make a 100$ bet with Peter Higgs about whether the Higgs boson will be found by the LHC: http://coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/lhc-hawking-v-higgs/

This is quite fun (if you are a science freak like me at least ), but I think it is mostly done to get some puplic attention to science, rather than anything else. 

the_lhc:

If they don't find it, it simply means they need to think again, which is almost as valuable, as it saves years of heading down a blind alley. There's plenty of other things they'll be using the collider for as well, so it won't be wasted money.

Very well said, and so true!

TKratz:

the_lhc:

Oh and you know the proof you were requesting for Hawking's theories? That's what this will go someway to providing if the Higgs boson is found (remember it's not possible to prove a theory. Also I don't think this is actually one of Hawking's ideas but never mind).

You are right, the theory of the Higgs boson wasn't one of Hawking's ideas. It was developed by the particle physicist Peter Higgs (and thereby the name). Hawking is more known as a cosmologist working with broader scopes so to say. He is probably best known for his theories of extreme objects and conditions, eg. black holes and how they can evaporate (as consequence of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle). But there are of course overlaps, and running tests in the LHC you create a such extreme condition.

And of course one of Hawking's goals is to combine Quantum Theory with General Relativity into the GUT, so it all needs to be taken into account.

What I didn't know (but found out be a quick search) is, that Hawking is trying to make a 100$ bet with Peter Higgs about whether the Higgs boson will be found by the LHC: http://coraifeartaigh.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/lhc-hawking-v-higgs/

This is quite fun (if you are a science freak like me at least ), but I think it is mostly done to get some puplic attention to science, rather than anything else.

Hawking's quite well known for making bets with other scientists, a few years back he conceded that he'd lost a bet regarding information loss within black holes (he actually developed the theory that caused him to lose the bet!) and had previously bet a year's subscription to Penthouse on whether Cygnus X1 was a black hole, Kip Thorne won that bet.

I was aware about the Cygnus X1 bet, and I know he anticipated to loose the bet (never heard the outcome though).

This also shows he is not afraid to loose face (but as already said I think he considers this more puplic gimics than scientific bets).

dim_span:

yea ... 666 ...

Graham_Thomas:

dim_span:

yea ... 666 ...

Apprarently they got it wrong and 666 should be 616 according to some biblical translation scholars. That's one theory out of the way. Next.

actually, it's just numbers .... next .... 2012 ???

Ravey Gravey Davy:

And I apologise if people feel I'm getting a little strong with my replies but I can't stand it when people state half-remembered myths and plain made up rubbish as "fact"......

JohnDuncan:

"I'm not sure at all...but I'd guess one of those suckers could take out our solar system"

So there we have it, a definitive answer. We're all going to die.